Savage Playground.... About the production

Why do people want a "live" sound? Go to a concert then! Haha. I can agree it sounds a little bit too much compressed, but I guess that's just beacuse everyone is comparing it to RIS. I think it fits the music on this album very well, and I also think people will adjust their opinions after a while.

izzie wrote: ust beacuse everyone is comparing it to RIS

Am I the only one who hates the production in Rest In Sleaze?

And to stay in topic, I think they changed the production because the songs are also different from the standard of Crashdiet. They looked for a rougher feel, which is far from Generation Wild.

But it doesn't exactly sound like live stuffs: listen to the back voices on California for example.

I like the whole thing (it took me some time though, because it's different), but I hate some vocal overdubs (chorus of "Got A Reason"). I can't find the right words, maybe I'll express them in the "fan review" thread.

I miss the "RamPac" duo on some riffs (think about "Drinkin' Without You" with the bass sound of "Down With The Dust"), but Excited is like a pearl (seems like it's ready for a movie).

Like about all things, people are awfully conservative. I'm pretty sure that most of the people who do not like the production will either change opinion or merge with it in some time. "oh no, it's different, I'm not used to it, this gotta be bad". Hoho.

I think, the biggest problem about it, is that everybody tries to see RIS in every record. Stop comparing the records. Sure, Crashdiet did "something else", when they choose a different sound, exacly like the songwriting. But if they wouldn´t walk forward, we had another record with the exact same riffs. Who wants this? I like it to hear their influences (like Native Nature could had been from Slave to the Grind album), as well as I like their own interpretation of sleaze metal. And that´s one point, why I prefer Crashdiet over a lot of "80's alike" bands. Crashdiet don´t try to sound exactly like their idols, even though you can hear them often or sometimes. It´s ok. A band doesn´t always need to go in the same vein on one album. Its ok, when there is a experimental touch in a song, when there is a "untypical" doublebass part, and so on. We want to hear different music. That´s why I really go for The Savage Playground as well as I go for RIS, TUR and GW. It´s different. I don´t put in a record and wait to hear the "typical Crashdiet" or… hey this has "It´s a miracle"-character or stuff. I want to hear what´s coming out of the musicians I trusted the last years and so on. And there is not just one songwriter in the band. It´s so impossible, that every one of them has the same style to write a song, especially if you´ve got bandmembers with totally different influences (Punk, Glam, Death Metal, Black Metal, Heavy Metal, Sleaze Metal, Hard Rock, …) And it´s exactly the same with the production. They wanted something else, than they did before, that´s why they have choosen another studio/producer. Why not experimenting with the sound. And there is another point: Fact is not that there is another producer, there are different boxes, cabs, and so on. It would sound different if you would take a Marshall box or if you take a Fender box, if you decide to record with your "real" ampsound or with a finished plug-in. It´s different if you hear it, or I hear it and it´s different if London listens to it or if Young does it. Those are all aspects, we could discuss about for hours…So, can we really say it would be a good or a bad production? (And I don´t mean in general, because if it´s up to say bad production I automatically thing about St. motherfuckin "trash-drum" Anger. )

izzie wrote: Like about all things, people are awfully conservative. I'm pretty sure that most of the people who do not like the production will either change opinion or merge with it in some time. "oh no, it's different, I'm not used to it, this gotta be bad". Hoho.

Very true indeed.

Regarding compression: The dynamics always suffer from it. And dynamics are a quality with which musicians can make distinguishable trademarks in their individual style. I just can't see why they would sacrifice some of that for the feeling of "Wow, a modern metal record" It's following a trend and it doesn't sound different at all, it makes it less different and is very common for many years now.

I didn't listen to TSP yet (hope it arrives soon), so I can't put in my opinion on that in particular. I had a foretaste through the videos, but there are more things about production that make the sound and I might like it after all.

my initial point has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the albums, or wanting another "rest in sleaze", and i don't think people have been saying that in this thread from what i recall.

the discussion has nothing to do with with whether an album has the same riff, or can be compared to skid row or whatever... the content of the cd and the production of the cd are 2 separate items.

The "content" of the album (songwriting, instruments...etc) are fantastic. But the "production" and clarity of the recording is what i was raising, so i think it's important to keep the 2 topics separate..

riKki reKkless wrote: I think, the biggest problem about it, is that everybody tries to see RIS in every record. Stop comparing the records. Sure, Crashdiet did "something else", when they choose a different sound, exacly like the songwriting. But if they wouldn´t walk forward, we had another record with the exact same riffs. Who wants this? I like it to hear their influences (like Native Nature could had been from Slave to the Grind album), as well as I like their own interpretation of sleaze metal. And that´s one point, why I prefer Crashdiet over a lot of "80's alike" bands. Crashdiet don´t try to sound exactly like their idols, even though you can hear them often or sometimes. It´s ok. A band doesn´t always need to go in the same vein on one album. Its ok, when there is a experimental touch in a song, when there is a "untypical" doublebass part, and so on. We want to hear different music. That´s why I really go for The Savage Playground as well as I go for RIS, TUR and GW. It´s different. I don´t put in a record and wait to hear the "typical Crashdiet" or… hey this has "It´s a miracle"-character or stuff. I want to hear what´s coming out of the musicians I trusted the last years and so on. And there is not just one songwriter in the band. It´s so impossible, that every one of them has the same style to write a song, especially if you´ve got bandmembers with totally different influences (Punk, Glam, Death Metal, Black Metal, Heavy Metal, Sleaze Metal, Hard Rock, …) And it´s exactly the same with the production. They wanted something else, than they did before, that´s why they have choosen another studio/producer. Why not experimenting with the sound. And there is another point: Fact is not that there is another producer, there are different boxes, cabs, and so on. It would sound different if you would take a Marshall box or if you take a Fender box, if you decide to record with your "real" ampsound or with a finished plug-in. It´s different if you hear it, or I hear it and it´s different if London listens to it or if Young does it. Those are all aspects, we could discuss about for hours…So, can we really say it would be a good or a bad production? (And I don´t mean in general, because if it´s up to say bad production I automatically thing about St. motherfuckin "trash-drum" Anger. )

wow... this is what hardrockhaven.net said about the production:

"The muddy, sludgy, overly- compressed production is the primary reason this album fails like a one-legged amputee trying to dance the two-step."

Full review can be read here, and it's written by a big crashdiet fan.
hardrockhaven.net/online/2013/02/crashdiet-the-savage-playground-cd-review/


Although people that are already crashdiet fans (ie all us around here) can see thru the production issues,... and have more of an idea of where the guys were heading with this sort of production, do you think that there is a possibility that the production may be turning off a lot of potential new fans? Because it honestly get's mentioned in soooo many reviews that it cannot be denied that the production isn't too alot of peoples tastes.

Anyone who has Gemin Five's "Sex Drug Anarchy" cd release and then has been fortunate to listen to and compare it to the 100% improved remixed version they did later (but never pressed to cd) can see what a difference it can make.

I don´t think, new potential fans would be put off. Crashdiet had a lot of fans, when they just put out their demos.

glam_junkie wrote: "The muddy, sludgy, overly- compressed production is the primary reason this album fails like a one-legged amputee trying to dance the two-step."

[...]do you think that there is a possibility that the production may be turning off a lot of potential new fans?

Yes and No. There are different expectations for demos and albums. A demo can be rough, but people who buy an album want a more clear sound, with which I mean, they want to hear it properly, be able to distinguish everything without effort. I's easier to grasp what an artist says if she or he doesn't speak slurred all the time. If I didn't already read that there are flaws in the productions, I would've checked my stereo or thought about exchanging it's cables at the first listening. It might piss of some of the audience.

But you can hear badass songs under the mud and it's not all wrong. It is a kickass record. Production is all about taste, there's no such thing as the perfect mix (this one is hardly good for the level of experience the guys have, tho). The songs couldbring a broad audience to make it big (not because they are soft, but because they are awesome), but with that production quality it will more likely attract kids of the underground.

I'd be kinda exited to hear a new mix, though. And to hear a statement of a band member.

I don't like the production of the new album at all. I understand the concept of it - to make it sound more natural and organic or whatever. But I personally prefer the tightness of Generation Wild. That album just sticks out alot more to me. The title song, Armageddon, Rebel, Native Nature, Bound To Fall... that whole album is just tighter, better and cooler overall. Sorry, but that's my honest opinion.

No song on this new album compares to the title track on Generation Wild, in my opinion.

The new album is not bad by any means... it's just not as strong as their last one. I prefer the tighter sound.

I wonder now that Peter is back online on the forum whether he's able to give us more of an insight into the production of The Savage Playground?

Even as recently as just last week I had someone say to me "I finally heard the last crashdiet album. What was up with the production?"

mrs v. viper wrote: I'd be intrested too, but does anybody else who was a little astonished first totally not hear it anymore too?

I still hear it but I take the album for what it is.
It's not a massive issue to me, but i always still wonder what it would have sounded like with production like Generation Wild.

I do find that it can however be a bigger issue to people who may only be casual crashdiet listeners.

I actually like that kind of raw production, it has a live feeling to it. Of course it's not as "slick" as on Generation Wild but I take it as a little experiment with sound, not really a bad one actually. It makes me think a bit of Metallica's ...And Justice For All which also is a controversial album when it comes to production. But then it is what it was supposed to be, just like Savage. We can wonder how would it sound with a different production but at the same time it's what makes that album unique. It's there for a reason!

I‘ve heard from a lot of people, that they prefer a raw, original sound and don‘t like it that overproduced, but I actually really go for it. Even though I like that clean, well produced sound, I like the sound of TSP, but I thought on a record like TUR for exaple, that the bass sounded much better. I fuckin‘ love Peters sound on this record.

but does being raw sounding have to take away from the clarity?

glam_junkie wrote: but does being raw sounding have to take away from the clarity?

This right here..

I'm perfectly okay with the raw sound, but when i downloaded the mp3 files from itunes it was impossible for me to crank up the album without hearing a bunch of noise and muffling up the sound. Once I finally got the album in the mail I immediately downloaded it and made them lossless files rather than mp3s and it made a world of difference for clarity. In the end I think the album could have been a little more "polished" while still maintaining the raw edgy live feel. Keep the mistakes on some of the solos and don't worry about perfecting every last note, but also allow the album to sound phenomenal when cranked up on the stereo

glam_junkie wrote: but does being raw sounding have to take away from the clarity?

I probably used the wrong word to describe.

peterlondon wrote: Amps are overrated.

Agreed! But you sure as hell have to know how to use plugins if you go straight to the board, or it will end up sounding flat and boring

peterlondon wrote:

riKki reKkless wrote: ...but I thought on a record like TUR for exaple, that the bass sounded much better. I fuckin‘ love Peters sound on this record.

Thanks! No amps were used for the bass, only line in straight to the board and tons of plugins. Amps are overrated.

//LONDON

Haha, I go along with you on this one! We‘re recording right now and do it the same way. Our producer even bought a Kemper for the guitars.

I prefer the more produced crashdiet albums, but its still a very good album though.