Vegetarian or, Vegan

beautïful wrote: I live vegan for six and a half years now. I started when doing some research on industrial livestock farming and realized I don't wanna pay people to treat animals that way.

mrs v. viper wrote: gotta say I hate that preaching thing many vegenas and vegetaroians got going on these days...

Many people get to know animals as pets, meat as a neat product and when they think of livestock, peaceful pictures of cows grazing on meadows or some chickens on a lawn come to their minds, maybe together with a simple but honest farmer character they saw on tv, telling it's all fine. As always some get seriously shocked and traumatized if confronted with reality. Those preachings are a sign of desperation.

And I myself don't like soy drink or tofu and other soy food that much, because of the mentioned taste of its own. There are more tasty sorts of plant drinks and most 'fake meat' today isn't tofu anyway. It's mostly seitan and it's made of gluten, which is pure wheat protein. It's tasteless by itself, but you can flavour it and vary it's consistency to your every liking. I prefer that.

well if it's desperation, I am desperate to be left alone. There is a BIG BIG BIG difference between informing, educating and raising awareness and preaching. I am better informed about livestock conditions than many and still eat meat, and i honestly don't care to be judged for that. killing animals is one moral question out of hundreds. Just because peoples morality differs in that particular question from mine it doesnt make me a bad person. Mostly those veganns that talk to me like that don't even know me. Calling me such a "worse" person than others is moral fingerraising and PREACHING. you know, like people preaching no sex before marriage for for them totsl valud MORAL reasons, and then JUDGE those who live against it. It's not anyones place to decide who's morality is right. And everyone who does it anyway can kindly fuck off, at least for me.

beautïful wrote: I live vegan for six and a half years now. I started when doing some research on industrial livestock farming and realized I don't wanna pay people to treat animals that way.

mrs v. viper wrote: gotta say I hate that preaching thing many vegenas and vegetaroians got going on these days...

Many people get to know animals as pets, meat as a neat product and when they think of livestock, peaceful pictures of cows grazing on meadows or some chickens on a lawn come to their minds, maybe together with a simple but honest farmer character they saw on tv, telling it's all fine. As always some get seriously shocked and traumatized if confronted with reality. Those preachings are a sign of desperation.

And I myself don't like soy drink or tofu and other soy food that much, because of the mentioned taste of its own. There are more tasty sorts of plant drinks and most 'fake meat' today isn't tofu anyway. It's mostly seitan and it's made of gluten, which is pure wheat protein. It's tasteless by itself, but you can flavour it and vary it's consistency to your every liking. I prefer that.

well if it's desperation, I am desperate to be left alone. There is a BIG BIG BIG difference between informing, educating and raising awareness and preaching. I am better informed about livestock conditions than many and still eat meat, and i honestly don't care to be judged for that. killing animals is one moral question out of hundreds. Just because peoples morality differs in that particular question from mine it doesnt make me a bad person. Mostly those veganns that talk to me like that don't even know me. Calling me such a "worse" person than others is moral fingerraising and PREACHING. you know, like people preaching no sex before marriage for for them totsl valud MORAL reasons, and then JUDGE those who live against it. It's not anyones place to decide who's morality is right. And everyone who does it anyway can kindly fuck off, at least for me.

Anna Gable wrote: Ppl then blame fruit for this, and for getting insuline problems, but the problem is not the fruit, it's the meat sitting like a stopper in your system, making the fruit staying too long in your body. If you eat vegetarian and fruits, it will all pass faster, and you'lll not have any insuline problem either. Some say "We've been eating meat and nuts from the beginning", well no, we have since the fire was discovered, but not since the beginning of time. Then the humans lived where you can find fruit all year, and that was our first nourishment. So, eating vegertarian, especially raw and fruits, is what our system originally was designed for.

tbh, all this "what we are designed for" and "it's healthier" are actually the weakest arguments from both sides in this whole debate.
It is true that the homo sapiens species in the beginning didn't eat meat. However, evolution worls alot faster than people think, and genetics get influenced ESPECIALLY by food a lot more and in shorter times than you might think. If you take a look at sperlings (little birds) on an island with difficult circumstances, where for exempla a storm caused the whole vegetation to chage rapidly you can watch the beaks shape change in a span of a decade or two. The whole birds even looks different and it's still a sperling. Now the Homo sapiens you speak of lived thousands and thousands of years ago.
Asian People are homo sapiens yet can't eat/drink some things that we can because they genetics are different, for exemple milk products, because they aren't "used" to it.
Now Tibetians on the other hand, who are genetically much closer to for exemple chinese people than us, can drink milk, because in the highlands their animals was a more steady source of food tan anything else, and it was necesary for them to drink it, in opposite to the chinese people who have rice, and corn etc.

I think everyone agrees that the most healthy way is to eat with a good balance of carbs, proteins, vitamins, irons etc all the stuff your body needs in the right amount.
meat isn't unhelathy. However un unatural amount of meat is. The "natural" way would be maybe once a week, yet most people that arent't vegetarians eat it way more often than taht, if not more than once a day! ofcourse thats unhealthy.

You can't say this and that is unhelathy because in the wrong amounst EVERYTHING is unhealthy.

If you want to have a valid argument why you shoukdn't eat meat at all it's "a living being is killed for you". You can't even say "a living being is tortured, hold in a too small cage and fed in a unheralthy way for you and then gets killed for you" because you can be a non-vegetarian without that. there are enough farmes that provide cruelty free meat, yet ofc this menas you have to cut down the amount you eat.

Everything else is hypricratic reasons.

I eat meat. I am an Asshole. Simple as that.